Definition of "Mint Condition"

[collector]

I know Ed put up a poll on what should be the VERY TOP OF THE LINE Condition Definition for for a Digital watch.

BRFORE VOTING, I ask you visit NOS Watches being listed on eBay. (Yes I have too much time.) After reading the item descriptions very carefully, if NOS was at the top of the descriptor chain we might be / are developing, would they be worth more than the same watch in absolutely Mint condition? Again, I am only asking what should be the top of the line descriptor - NOS better than mint?

Not in my book!!

[Seer Taak]

Im moving away from the NOS, to 'Mint as New' being the highest standard. I think that a NOS watch could quite possibly have unknown reliability - having not being used over any period of time - while mint as new would be a more known quantity!
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The other day, my computer beat me at chess. It was rubbish at kick boxing though.

[retroleds]

Well guys, this was enlightening, so I changed my rating guide and all items on my site from NOS to "Mint As New". I left boxes and paperwork out of the rating equation, as that speaks to the overall package contents, more than the condition of the timepiece. [Edit] I have now placed a "community property Condition Guide here and on www.thedigitalwatch.com/condition.htm . It is under the "Reference" menu there.
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"Watches are like love, hard to get all the compatible pieces together in one place."~E.C.
www.retroleds.com - vintage LED and LCD and watch sales & repairs. Select vintage mechanical watches for sale.

[Seer Taak]

I have the same idea, about linking quality ratings to the retroleds.com reference, for when I post an auction. I'tll send a bit more traffic, and hopefully business to Ed, maybe increase the number of collectors, and establish a standard quality rating for buyers and sellers :)
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The other day, my computer beat me at chess. It was rubbish at kick boxing though.

[retroleds]

Guys, I will move this rating guide in just a few minutes to a "sticky" under "General Discussion, with a link to a page that can be utilized by anyone, over on www.ledwatches.net and via www.thedigitalwatch.com. This way it will be considered more of a "digital watch community property" and will be freely utilized, rather than resisted. Further refinement may be in order but it is a start.

The link is here: www.ledwatches.net/condition.htm
and here.www.thedigitalwatch.com/condition.htm Link freely.
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"Watches are like love, hard to get all the compatible pieces together in one place."~E.C.
www.retroleds.com - vintage LED and LCD and watch sales & repairs. Select vintage mechanical watches for sale.

[Majestyk]

I haven't read evey post in detail here...yet...but I've never accepted New Old Stock as mint nor have I ever used it that way. New Old Stock to me, means what it says. It was never sold back in the day but it could have marks from handling, being moved around, being shuffled in the box. But it was never purchased or worn. Mint is a step up meaning that it's the same condtion as when it came out of the factory. I slipped up on one of my auctions not long ago stating something was mint but had some marks on it. Whops...I meant to put New Old Stock with some marks on it.

Anyway, I'm not changing my terms after 6 years of going this. :)


Jeff

[retroleds]

_________________
"Watches are like love, hard to get all the compatible pieces together in one place."~E.C.
www.retroleds.com - vintage LED and LCD and watch sales & repairs. Select vintage mechanical watches for sale.

[bruce wegmann]

To address Fitron's observation that "the majority of people think...that NOS is as good a condition as a watch could be cosmetically"...that might really be true, but I really don't care what the majority of people think; they're not collectors. The majority of people used to think the world was flat [some idiots still do]; that didn't make it true. I'm concerned with what collectors think. We, after all, are supposed to be the ones with the superior knowledge, the fuller grasp of what we're talking about. I, for one, do not care to speak in some secret code...saying "NOS" when I actually mean "mint", as long as everybody "understands" what I "really" meant. I think collectors should define collectors' terms, and it's up to the public to learn the lexicon; it's part of the specialized knowledge one is obliged to learn in any field [I certainly had to learn more about geology than I ever thought I could, when I was collecting meteorites]. To suggest that NOS is actually better than mint, I think, is to argue that in some mysterious manner that defies the laws of physics in the universe where I live, a watch can come to be in BETTER condition [after it has knocked about in a store], than when it left the factory! Impossible! Am I really wildly off the mark here, or am I just losing my mind [or just my grasp of the English language]? Didn't mean to get strident here, but we need to keep our definitions connected to the real world...I will now sit down, STFU, and let my medication take effect...

[Fitron]

Elitism Bruce? It would sort the wheat from the chaff if people have to learn the terms but do we want this? The LED world is tiny and we do want more people to join in surely? I know I do as I think we'd all benefit from an increased popularity in them and by making it more accessable then we are more likely to get that. You say that you don't want a secret language - that's something we agree on but then you say that it's up to the public to learn the lexicon so what's the difference? By keeping it simple it becomes more accessable but surely then that opposes your statement that you don't care what the majority think. If the majority think that NOS means mint then by changing that then you are beginning to shut the door on them.
As for the laws of physics - they are all theories and subject to updates - language is too. Take the word "gay". That meant happy until the 60's, then it meant homosexual, now it means something or someone is lame or pathetic. The fact that it's changed again into a vague insult about objects or people (with NO sexual connotations) has really upset some people but you can't stop teens from using it in its new version. Gay as a sexual preference meaning is going to fade into history as the teens grow up and take over. I put it to you that NOS is taking over from mint wether or not you like that fact. What is really needed is a proper definition of NOS - not the NOS with scratches that collector has been showing us. That's ebay bull from the sellers.
I'm not stirring it - merely wanting to explore all the avenues open to us and if necessary play Devil's Advocate. I'll happily abide by the majority view and use links to the guide when I sell.

P.S. - replace an Amida jump hour with better internals and it's in better condition than when it was sold in as it'll have a decent mechanism with 17 jewels. :wink:
P.P.S You lost the grasp of English in 1776 :wink: :wink:

[retroleds]

Guys,guys - reel it in just a little(ironic, ME as the referee). It's obvious that this is a good discussion topic, we have all noticed the "holes in the cheese". I like getting away from NOS - as I and others noted, it's really just a commentary on an item's social life. Unsold. Mint As New, is sort of like "bad as hell" - it is not JUST Mint, it is Mint As New! There is a fine line between Mint, minty, mintageous,"you couldn't find nicer","flawless NOS". I'm thinking my top 1% category is much too broad from a mathematical standpoint....if 1% of a watch's surface was scratched, few of us would consider it "Mint". Or we would say,"it would be flawlessly Minty except for one bad scratch". Getting sellers to move away from the numericals,e.g. 9.2 out of 10, would probably reduce 75% of the confusion,IMO. Seemingly off topic: my Data Dots have already detered one person who wanted to return a "Minty" item....once I reminded them about the "Dots"(they hadn't read my site thoroughly), they decided there was NOTHING wrong with the "Minty" piece. My guess is they wanted a free module. WaaaHAAAAAA!!
_________________
"Watches are like love, hard to get all the compatible pieces together in one place."~E.C.
www.retroleds.com - vintage LED and LCD and watch sales & repairs. Select vintage mechanical watches for sale.

[markos]

Interesting debate guys, sorry I've only just read it all a little later than the rest of you.

I agree with the 'mint is better than NOS' argument, though the vernacular on eBay means 'NOS' is more highly regarded there. In previous auctions of mine selling NOS/mint Seiko LCDs I've always stated the watches have never been worn but may have slight storage marks (even if I can't see them: the winner may use an eye glass!), and ask that the images be viewed for an accurate view of the item's condition.

Personally, if a watch has never been worn it holds a certain value for me, even if it has storage marks. I'd rather have such a watch than an 'almost' mint one that has been worn, I guess I'm happier to have a watch with a ding from the case or from storage, than one with an identical ding from being worn on a wrist, if that makes sense.

A problem with 'mint' is what I've done in the above paragraph, and others in this thread have done aswell, and that is to 'grade' it. 'Almost mint', 'minty', '90% mint'... all these phrases wind me up on eBay, and thankfully 'NOS' doesn't get messed with like that; there is no 'NOSy', or '99% NOS', and I really like that about 'NOS'.

I'll be selling a few more watches on eBay soonish, one of them is indeed NOS and mint, with both boxes and all paperwork in pristine condition, and will probably include 'NOS' and 'mint' in the title and description, but nevertheless will say it may have tiny, tiny storage marks, just to cover myself, even though it doesn't.

[Metaengineer]

Very interesting debate. I read all the views.

To sidetrack a bit. What do you call a watch that is flawless in condition, no scratch , no dings BUT because for some reason that the original band has been substituted for another , is now fixed with a another band ?

For example. What would you call a CFX-40 black resin watch that is flawless (in cosmetic outlook and functionally perfect) that is now "crossed" and attached with a CFX-400 metal strap that is matching but not original of what it should have been ?

[Metaengineer]

Any Views ?

Sorry if I opened up the discussion in another dimension. But what i query just went through my mind. And it does happens ! Some good vintage pieces dont have their original bands affixed so I just wondered how they should be called.

Mint modified ? (But bearing in mind there is no module modification, is just the strap)

I cant think of another term.

[Fitron]

Just describe them as you think fit, but just be sure to mention the modified strap and its condition. That should cover all the bases.